A seasonal question

[karohemd]

Who came up with the name of mincemeat for the filling of mince pies?
I could imagine some baker came up with the dried fruit/spice filling for a pie and then realised how similar it looked to the filling of a, say, shepherd's pie and said, let's call it mincemeat to confuse all the foreigners?

Update: Wow, that was quick. Thanks a lot!

Comments

[lslaw.livejournal.com]

It used to be made with meat and authentic mincemeat is still made with beef suet.

[ksirafai.livejournal.com]

I say nothing about the basis of the word 'sweetbreads'.

Which is fried pancreas.

:P

Mincemeat, though, as has been said, used to be made with meat - the spices and fruit were there as much to preserve it as to flavour, I think. :) Midwinter didn't have much fresh...

[bringeroflight.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was to mask the taste. I actually tried adding mincemeat to a beef mince, and it did work quite nicely. Odd combination of flavours.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

The preservation argument makes a lot of sense, actually.

[vulgarcriminal.livejournal.com]

I've eaten it..... real mincemeat I mean.

*yuck*

[gbsteve.livejournal.com]

It used to be made of moose.

[crocodilewings.livejournal.com]

The word "meat" in English used to refer to any foodstuffs, and has only in the past few hundred years come to be specifically associated with animal flesh.

Also responsible for the now-archaic term "sweetmeats".

[sparksoflight.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. The two-volume concise OED's etymology for "meet" connects it with "meat", if I remember rightly, as you could "meet" someone for food. "Meet me" can therefore mean "dine with me".

This is going on a very rusty memory of looking it up years ago, however. So y'know. I'm probably wrong.

I am inclined to connect the mincemeat of mince pies with the term "sweetmeat", though - it's "minced sweetmeats", isn't it?

[crocodilewings.livejournal.com]

Go etymology geekery!

[vyvyan.livejournal.com]

The two-volume concise OED's etymology for "meet" connects it with "meat", if I remember rightly, as you could "meet" someone for food. "Meet me" can therefore mean "dine with me".

I don't think this can be right. There are two distinct sets of cognate forms in early Germanic languages: a "meat" one (generally meaning "food") i.e. Old English mete, Old Norse matr, Old High German maz, Gothic mats; and a "meet" one i.e. Old English me:tan (long e), Old Norse moeta, Gothic gamo:tjan. (The "meet" verb has apparently been derived within early Germanic from a coexisting noun "meeting" i.e. archaic English moot.) The different vowel sets suggest an original Germanic root *mat- for the "meat" words and *mo:t- for the "meet" words. Further etymologies are uncertain (though a link to the source of Latin madeo, Greek madao: "to be moist, wet" has been suggested for the "meat" words, and a connection with Armenian matcim "approach" for the "meet" words. The full OED does not hint at any etymological connection between "meet" and "meat".

[sparksoflight.livejournal.com]

... which is exactly why I've peppered the idea with wording like "I'm probably wrong", but cheers for the clarification.

[blue-cat.livejournal.com]

Hmm, the version I had was that they were once made with spiced beef mince but Cromwell banned Christmas and all associated fripperies as being too pagan - so as beef mince pies were illegal people made them with spiced fruit mince instead.... it wasn't illegal was it *looks innocent*

Whether that is strictly true or not....

[kingnat.livejournal.com]

Meat refers to the edible flesh of a foodstuff.
It's only relatively recently that it has come to be associated with animal flesh to the exclusion of fruits, but the term mincemeat was still retained for mince pies.