A question for our American friends

[karohemd]

This came up in conversation with xambrius last Saturday and I only just remembered:

Why is it the "4th of July" and not "July 4th" as per US date convention?

Comments

[missdiane.livejournal.com]

I hear it both ways. However, the exception hearing it as "4th of July" is likely to distinguish it from the standard convention because it's the only US Holiday on a constant date rather than on something like the "third Thursday of X month" like most other US holidays.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

That sounds likely, actually. Thanks.

[caseytalk.livejournal.com]

It's also quite possible that we started calling it '4th of July' back when we were only recently independent from England and our dialects were more similar.

[whiskeylover.livejournal.com]

Exactly- it probably pre-dates the Americans getting dates the wrong way round... ;)

[caseytalk.livejournal.com]

Precisely -- it was after our going our separate ways we appear to have realized that 'July 4th' is a much more efficient way to speak than 'the 4th of July', while losing no information or nuance.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

That's what I was thinking originally.

[caseytalk.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that works given that it was only in recent years that things like Washington's Birthday and Lincoln's birthday were lumped into 'x Monday in February' or that 'discovery day/Columbus day' was moved from 12 October to the nearest Monday. It was "The 4th of July" long before those changes were made. It doesn't work that we tend to refer to it by date rather than by another name, too, because it's also called "Independence Day".

[missdiane.livejournal.com]

It combines with your explanation of when the dating conventions changed. It was a holiday commonly celebrated on July 4 even though there are disputes as to when the Congress met, when the declaration was actually signed, etc.

As years go on I am hearing more "July 4th" so "4th of July" is actually becoming an antiquated term anyway.

[susanofstohelit.livejournal.com]

It might have something to do with George M. Cohan and the song Yankee Doodle Boy. It's one of the most memorable sections of the lyrics and the song was popular for a long time.

[will-sample.livejournal.com]

A good deal of it stems from the original discussions of two Founding Fathers (Adams and Jefferson) with their wives and friends in letters, particularly John Adam's letter of July 3rd to his wife, in which the following quote was placed; the shift in dates has to deal with the procedural dates of the acceptance of the Declaration, versus Adam's push of the bill from committee.

"The Second Day of July 1776, will be the most memorable Epocha, in the History of America.

I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated, by succeeding Generations, as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance by solemn Acts of Devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, Guns, Bells, Bonfires and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this Time forward forever more."

In the years following the Declaration, this excerpt was the most widely printed excerpt from Adam's papers in newsprint; as he and Jefferson both lived to see the 50th anniversary of the Declaration, the quote got new traction as the nation celebrated it's 50th year of independence, entrenching the linguistic phrase in the minds of a 3rd generation.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

Interesting, thanks!