karohemd: by LJ user gothindulgence (Default)
[personal profile] karohemd
Where does the slang term "rozzers" for police actually come from? The internet seems to say nobody knows.

Date: 15/2/09 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mirabehn.livejournal.com
I've no real idea, but I wonder if it might be another abbreviation of Robert (as in Robert Peel, founder of the British police force), along with the older "bobbies" and "peelers".

Date: 15/2/09 09:47 pm (UTC)

Date: 15/2/09 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davedevil.livejournal.com
I has two possible answers:

Rozzers: A British term. To Rozz was slang for to roast in the East End of London.

Robert Peel was from Bury, Lancashire set the first police up and the local town they concentrated their first efforts on was Rossendale, hence Rozzers

Date: 15/2/09 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
Sounds plausible. Cheers!

Date: 15/2/09 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undyingking.livejournal.com
Short for "Rozzingtons" -- the bold arrest of the casually murderous third Earl of Rozzington was a notable early coup for the embryonic eighteenth-century police force, which shaped their heroic image in the public eye. (Possibly.)

Date: 15/2/09 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
Never heard of him but sounds cool. :o)

Date: 16/2/09 07:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undyingking.livejournal.com
No-one has, it's as though there's some sort of conspiracy ;-)

Date: 16/2/09 10:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
Damn you!

Date: 15/2/09 11:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-s-b.livejournal.com
I dunno, but it's a term used by Rumpole, so must be of considerable pedigree.

Date: 16/2/09 01:20 am (UTC)

Date: 16/2/09 01:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] astatine210.livejournal.com
...or possibly from the French roussin.

Date: 16/2/09 09:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vyvyan.livejournal.com
The OED's earliest quotation for it is from 1893:

P. H. EMERSON Signor Lippo xviii. 87 If the rozzers was to see him in bona clobber they'd take him for a gun.

In the context of two Polari terms (bona and clobber; possibly gun="thief" as well), I'm wondering if rozzer might also be of Polari origin, and have passed into more general slang usage (like naff).

Date: 16/2/09 10:58 am (UTC)
ext_8559: Cartoon me  (Default)
From: [identity profile] the-magician.livejournal.com
Much of polari was influenced by Romany, and certainly the US dictionaries believe that's possibly where it's from:

roz·zer (rä′zər)
noun
Brit., Slang a policeman

Etymology: < ? Romany roozlo, strong
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.

Date: 16/2/09 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vyvyan.livejournal.com
Actually, with a bit more searching, I think we can say that some of the internet's suggested origins are impossible, and others are unlikely. I've seen claims that it's from PG Wodehouse (impossible: his oeuvre all postdates the first attested usage of the word), from the Yiddish for "pig" (most unlikely; the Yiddish word is khazer) and from a supposed East End slang term rozz, "to roast" (the OED has no record of such a word, though it gives a single attestation of roast being used in about 1700 to mean "arrest"). The various suggested links to Robert Peel seem somewhat unlikely given the date gap between Peel's involvement in the development of the modern police force in the UK and Ireland, and the first attestations of rozzer; by contrast, peeler is first attested in 1817, and bobby in 1844. In fact, there's an interesting quotation for bobby from 1884:

L. J. JENNINGS in Croker Papers II. xiv. 17 Frequently when the constables made their appearance..they were hooted and insulted, mobs following them crying out ‘crusher’, ‘raw lobster’, ‘Bobbies’, and ‘Peelers’.

In such a list of slang terms for policemen at this time, including two probably derived from Robert Peel's name, it is perhaps surprising that rozzer is not included, if it is indeed of similar origin to those other two.

Date: 16/2/09 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
Very interesting, thank you!

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