karohemd: by LJ user gothindulgence (You lookin at me?)
[personal profile] karohemd
Is there a rule when the hard bit in front of a bird's head is called a bill and when a beak or are the two equally valid synonyms?

Date: 2/2/09 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] razornet.livejournal.com
waterfowl have bills an "land" birds beaks I think.

Date: 2/2/09 12:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davegodfrey.livejournal.com
Not that I've encountered. The land/waterfowl distinction isn't one I've seen. For instance, I've heard finches and other small birds described as having "bills". However, I don't recall hearing "bill" used for birds of prey.

Date: 2/2/09 12:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
The distinction seems to be a bit wishy-washy. I thought that a bill is blunt (like a duck's) while a beak sharp (like a hawk's).

Date: 2/2/09 01:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davegodfrey.livejournal.com
Possibly, but I'd also say that storks and herons had "bills", and they're not something you'd want to get on the wrong end of.

Basically if its a bird either would be OK. If its not a bird, use beak. (Cephalopods don't have a bill). Wikipedia also uses the term "rostrum", but its a technical term, and can be used for a large number of animals, the long "nose" of weevils (a type of beetle, not the Torchwood aliens) is a rostrum.

Date: 2/2/09 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
Right, cheers!

Date: 2/2/09 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undyingking.livejournal.com
If its not a bird, use beak.

Unless it's a duck-billed platypus. Or a hawksbill turtle... which in itself suggests that hawks' beaks must have been called bills at some point.

But yes, you can use either and not be wrong, I would say.

I guess beak is from the French bec whereas bill sounds more Germanic, so maybe it's just custom that for some birds one is used more than the other.

Date: 2/2/09 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
The modern German is "Schnabel" (for both beak and bill) but I'm not sure about the proto-German roots.

Date: 2/2/09 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theoldcatlady.livejournal.com
I agree with razornet. I've only heard "bill" used for waterfowl, and "beak" used for other birds.

However, one online dictionary further muddies the water by offering this:
beak   /bik/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [beek]
–noun 1. the bill of a bird; neb.
2. any similar horny mouthpart in other animals, as the turtle or duckbill.

bill2   /bɪl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bil] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. the parts of a bird's jaws that are covered with a horny or leathery sheath; beak.

Date: 2/2/09 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alawston.livejournal.com
It's not a hard and fast rule, as with most things in the English language, but bills tend to be used for waterfowl. A bill is rounded and a beak is pointy.

Date: 2/2/09 10:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nannyo.livejournal.com
This is how we used it when I was a bird keeper, but it's still acceptable to say a duck beak.

Date: 2/2/09 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akcipitrokulo.livejournal.com
Not sure f the difference - but QI said that the definition of the length of the bill was from its tip to the nostril - which technically makse the kiwi have the shortest bill of all birds!

Date: 2/2/09 01:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karohemd.livejournal.com
Heh, that is quite funny!

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