In British English, what do you call "frozen rain" (small pellets)? Sleet is melting snow, hail is bigger. I'm looking for what would be called "Graupel" in German.
We only have hail, sleet and snow. It's one of those and sounds more like hail than anything else. Hail can come in all sorts of sizes from the small pellet to the tennis ball sized.
Oh, I think I know what you mean, not as dense as hail, more very small pellets. I think it would still be classed as hail. Hail is a cover all term for solid ice like precipitations.
In America "freezing rain" is when rain freezes as soon as it hits the ground/trees/houses whatever and the weight of the ice is dangerous and can pull things down.
I suspect this is not what you mean though. BTW, Ozzy, have you not asked this question on LJ before? This post is giving me dejavu.
Couldn't think of a better way of describing it ("frozen raindrops" might have been better). Also, I said "frozen rain", not "freezing rain" which is entirely different and what you describe.
Possibly and I possibly didn't get a satisfactory answer then, either. ;o)
Pah! In Cincinnati, we had sleet, freezing rain and hail as possible options. This may also be because of the preponderance of German immigrants back in the mid to late 1800's though so these distinctions may have been a simple outgrowth of the German distinctions. Considering the records stop being in English once you hit about 1900 (going backward) it's a reasonable supposition.
Also I've found on the east coast of the US (at least this is where I first heard it), they have a term called "wintery mix". Personally, when they say that, I think of chex mix, and picture chocolate and powdered sugar covered chex mix raining from the sky...but then I tend to free associate ;)
Excellent! I was expecting to have to Anglicise my newfound word by spelling it "grauple", but if it's already an acceptable English word as "graupel", better still.
If it's water and dropping it's rain. If it's water and hanging in the air, then depending on droplet size it's mist or fog. If it freezes on hitting the ground, it was rain. If it hits the ground and bounces it's hail, if it hits the ground and goes splat it's sleet, and if it flutters to the ground and doesn't bounce, it's snow.
Frankly, I've never heard some one use the word 'graupel' or 'grauple' in English, and I have rather an extensive vocabulary. As everyone else said, if it's ice falling through the air, it's hail regardless of size. If it's flakes, it's snow. If it's still wet, it's rain. If it freezes on contact, it's freezing rain. Sleet is snow mixed with ice or snow mixed with rain.
I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic there... for reference, I suppose I use "proper term" more in the German sense, since they differentiate between what is a 'German' word vs. what is a 'foreign' one. Apologies if that's incorrect in English.
Not sarcastic, though slightly silly. There's a saying that "English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar."
English is made from so many words from other languages (pyjamas, bungalow, pukka etc.) and when we don't have a good word (and sometimes even when we do), we'll take the word from the other language (sometimes change the spelling or pronounciation) and it becomes a perfectly good *English* word. And the German words I mentioned are all now "English" words, in an English dictionary and part of English vocabulary. The _English_ word for "angst" *is* "angst".
We don't really have a concept of "proper term", we'll put "R.S.V.P." on the bottom of an invite and not consider it is French, we'll use words from German, Italian, Hindi, Chinese etc. and they are all part of standard English.
Ah, thanks for clarifying... you're of course correct.
Amusingly, English "angst" doesn't seem to mean the same as it does in German, at least from what I can gather from context - the German "Angst" just means 'fear', maybe 'anxiety'.
The point about less awareness is a good one, though.
Ah, thanks for that on the German meaning of "angst".
I think it go into English through psycho-analysis and the writings around that, so through Freud, Jung etc. And as such picked up a specialised meaning since we had perfectly good English words for "fear" and "anxiety", but now needed a word that was similar but with those extra overtones of meaning.
There are a few other German words that get used pretty much as is, but that are rarer in common usage, like "Weltschmerz".
In much the same way we use French words/terms like "fin de siecle", "coup de grace", "coup d'etat", "reservoir", "art deco", "au naturel" as they are and consider them acceptable English. http://french.about.com/library/bl-frenchinenglish-list.htm
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Date: 11/4/08 01:47 pm (UTC)But we do have 60 words for rain.
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Date: 11/4/08 01:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 01:50 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 11/4/08 01:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:03 pm (UTC)I suspect this is not what you mean though. BTW, Ozzy, have you not asked this question on LJ before? This post is giving me dejavu.
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Date: 11/4/08 02:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:21 pm (UTC)Possibly and I possibly didn't get a satisfactory answer then, either. ;o)
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Date: 11/4/08 02:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:29 pm (UTC)sleet, ice pellet, snow pellet, and soft hail.
SOFT HAIL?! What??
Also, it gives "graupel" as the English term, with a link here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=graupel
I'm guessing there isn't a proper English term. Soz.
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Date: 11/4/08 02:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:46 pm (UTC)Ahhhh language geekery... I do sometimes wish I got paid for doing it again :-)
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Date: 11/4/08 02:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 02:54 pm (UTC)Also I've found on the east coast of the US (at least this is where I first heard it), they have a term called "wintery mix". Personally, when they say that, I think of chex mix, and picture chocolate and powdered sugar covered chex mix raining from the sky...but then I tend to free associate ;)
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Date: 11/4/08 02:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 03:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 03:18 pm (UTC)If it's water and dropping it's rain. If it's water and hanging in the air, then depending on droplet size it's mist or fog. If it freezes on hitting the ground, it was rain. If it hits the ground and bounces it's hail, if it hits the ground and goes splat it's sleet, and if it flutters to the ground and doesn't bounce, it's snow.
We have no common word for different sized hail.
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Date: 11/4/08 03:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 03:20 pm (UTC)The hail with it! ;)
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Date: 11/4/08 03:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 03:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 03:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 04:03 pm (UTC)English is made from so many words from other languages (pyjamas, bungalow, pukka etc.) and when we don't have a good word (and sometimes even when we do), we'll take the word from the other language (sometimes change the spelling or pronounciation) and it becomes a perfectly good *English* word. And the German words I mentioned are all now "English" words, in an English dictionary and part of English vocabulary. The _English_ word for "angst" *is* "angst".
We don't really have a concept of "proper term", we'll put "R.S.V.P." on the bottom of an invite and not consider it is French, we'll use words from German, Italian, Hindi, Chinese etc. and they are all part of standard English.
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Date: 11/4/08 04:14 pm (UTC)Amusingly, English "angst" doesn't seem to mean the same as it does in German, at least from what I can gather from context - the German "Angst" just means 'fear', maybe 'anxiety'.
The point about less awareness is a good one, though.
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Date: 11/4/08 04:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 11/4/08 04:43 pm (UTC)I think it go into English through psycho-analysis and the writings around that, so through Freud, Jung etc. And as such picked up a specialised meaning since we had perfectly good English words for "fear" and "anxiety", but now needed a word that was similar but with those extra overtones of meaning.
There are a few other German words that get used pretty much as is, but that are rarer in common usage, like "Weltschmerz".
In much the same way we use French words/terms like "fin de siecle", "coup de grace", "coup d'etat", "reservoir", "art deco", "au naturel" as they are and consider them acceptable English.
http://french.about.com/library/bl-frenchinenglish-list.htm
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Date: 11/4/08 06:00 pm (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graupel
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Date: 11/4/08 11:12 pm (UTC)