Stephen Fry On Language

[karohemd]

Most of you who are either fans of Stephen Fry or interested in language will have read this superb blog entry so I won't be going on about how wonderful it is. Damn, that man can write.

I've been thinking a bit further:
- Could I translate this piece into German? No.

- Could a literary, bilingual genius translate it? Yes, but not in a way that could be understood by someone who doesn't know (much about) the English language. It's a superb example for a text that is inherently untranslatable because it contains too many cultural references. A translation would only be interesting to people with a high interest in the English language and those would be able to read the original.

- Could a similar piece be written in German about German? Probably. Bastian Sick (Spiegel's Zwiebelfisch) has a regular language column and most of his articles are amusing. He tends to take a prescriptive standpoint, though, so his piece would have a different message.

Thoughts by the Germans and German speakers on my f-list?

Comments

[her-welshness.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for punting up the link to his 2.0 joyness. It's great to see how many fans and the lovely comments that people have left him, and his cable packing entry was very entertaining indeed. Who does not love Stephen Fry?

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

*nods*
He could write about the most boring and dry subject matter ever and still be entertaining. What a brilliant mind.

Any idea when the new series of QI starts? It was recorded a few months ago so hopefully soon.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

As a native English speaker I am having enough trouble translating it into the language that happens in my head. But now you have mentioned it is difficult, I can see that it is the sort of thing I would have to make notes with diagrams on and then read those.

[caseytalk.livejournal.com]

As you say, it is inherently English.

The grand debate about Uzbek these days is not about grammar but about orthography. Uzbek is a Turkic language. In its earliest written form, they used Arabic script. The Great Game period left the Latin alphabet in its wake as the imported printing presses didn't use Arabic. With the Soviet Union came Cyrillic. There has been a movement to return to Latin, with the effect that the older generation reads Cyrillic and the younger reads Latin. One sees both everywhere. The fact that Russian is the language of choice of many in the metropolitan areas (and many of the powerful) means that Cyrillic is not going away without a fight.

I'd find that rather awkward, wouldn't you? The push for Latin letters was a reaction against the Soviet times and reflected a desire to reassert their ties to 'Turkistan', the greater Turkic heritage. The result, however, has been a bit of a mish mosh, as is said in Yiddish.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

That's very interesting. I'd assume the situation to be similar in other former Soviet republics?
It's a good example for the dynamics of language or rather the dynamics of how people use it.
There's a really good interview with Guy Deutscher (http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/guy-deutscher) about his book, The Unfolding of Language (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unfolding-Language-Guy-Deutscher/dp/0099460254/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226009511&sr=1-1). I really need to read this at one point.

Was the Uzbek language banned during Soviet times?

[dreamsewing.livejournal.com]

It could be translated fairly well into french, especially as it is a topic which is dear to the french ;)

I wonder, concerning the character of language/character of people. Do you find you are an appreciably different person when you speak German?
( I have had comments that I am a much more open and warm/emotional person when I am in "French Mode". Though I have more than simply La Langue, I also have the Parole and body language to go with it ;)

[caseytalk.livejournal.com]

It wasn't banned, it's just that you couldn't have a government job (read, anything that paid regularly) if you didn't speak Russian. The language of instruction in the schools was Russian. For most Uzbeks, the language of the home was Uzbek. There are SWEEPING generalizations in everything I've just said, but those were the tendencies.

The Great Game folks and the Soviets didn't pay a lot of attention to things like tribal or national factors when drawing up lines on maps, and most Central Asian countries are multi-national. Uzbeks are the majority here, but there are loads of Tajiks, Koreans (that was a Stalin thing. One benefit is that there's GREAT Korean food to be had in Uzbekistan) Kazakhs, etc., throughout the country.

Just as British colonialism brought a common language to its colonies, so did Soviet colonialism. I'm not a fan of colonialism, but it does have the tendency to bring with it common languages. That utility of a way to communicate across national groups means that Russian won't disappear around here for several generations. It's just that useful. There are people who quietly advocate for English to replace Russian as the second language of choice. It certainly would help Central Asia in the global society. The Russians, naturally, feel the loss of the stature of their language.

This makes the alphabet issue political, by the way.

[her-welshness.livejournal.com]

No idea actually - but D and I love watching it ; )

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

Do you find you are an appreciably different person when you speak German?
I don't think so, you'd have to ask someone who knows me speaking both. I'm a terrible speaker in either language (searching for words all the time etc.) but I don't think my personality changes.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

Many thanks for the info!
In countries/nations you obviously need a common language but at the same time it's important that the local languages are kept alive.